Two Finger Control Method

[woodshed]

In watching Dave Weckl?s Back to Basics video Dave demonstrates a Two Finger Control Method in which he starts with the palm down and then turns the hand over to and continues using this method. My question is how many drummers here at this forum use this technique and how long did it take you to master it? Man, it is tough. No problem palm down but rolling the hand over (natural position) gets a tad sloppy. I?m trying not to have any tension in my wrist, forearm, shoulders etc. and I am finding out this gives my wrist one heck of a work out. [img]eek.gif[/img]

Cheers

[peter c]

Woodshed,

This IS an important issue
for all drummers - finding
what kind of grip to use.

I have had the experience
of playing both radical
German (palm down) and
radical French (palm side)
and it was not easy for me
to arrive where I am today.

I'm going to say something
here and please don't take
it the wrong way:

Just because Tony Williams
told me to play German did
not make it right for me
to play German - and evid-
entally, for him, as well.

[img]wink.gif[/img]

I have found that a certain
technique is NOT going to
work for every drummer. You
have to find out what works
for you.

Maybe this technique is not
the right one for you. Maybe
it is. I can't be sure but just
remember that you always
have options.

I prefer French. I use the
middle-finger fulcrum. As I
crossover, with my right hand
to the left (if I do), I tend
to go palm-down (German).
Otherwise, I am palm-side
(French).

I use my middle and ring-
fingers to control the stick's
action, though I will use the
wrist in cross-over or the
more physical movements,
like getting around the kit
quickly etc.

I play "open" (left-hand
on the HH, on a right-
handed kit). I want to stay
in the most "natural" and
relaxed position, as possible.

Incidentally, it was Billy
that suggested finding what
worked for me and you can
see that I took what he
said to heart, in more ways
than one.

[img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 09, 2003 01:59 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>

[JACK TORSE]

I kind of due a little bit of both it depends on what the song calls for because I definately get a different feel(which subsiquently changes the sound) for both.

[bouts]

hi,
when i play on my flor tom i use more palm down, instead of when i play an up tempo jazz cymbal, i play more with my fingers, palm side. I think that is due to the rebound...

[Nikk]

You're experiencing difficulty because this idea of using the fingers in the left hand trad grip is a bit unnatural. Weckl even acknowledges this in his new video. These days, he says he simply turns the hand over with the palm facing down. If you're an obsessive like I am, though, you'll probably be too bullheaded to give up trying. [img]smile.gif[/img] So just keep working on it slowly and without tension. We know it's quite possible. We've seen it done. You can do it too. Wow, I should be a motivational speaker.

[woodshed]

Originally posted by Nikk:
You're experiencing difficulty because this idea of using the fingers in the left hand trad grip is a bit unnatural. Weckl even acknowledges this in his new video. These days, he says he simply turns the hand over with the palm facing down. If you're an obsessive like I am, though, you'll probably be too bullheaded to give up trying. [img]smile.gif[/img] So just keep working on it slowly and without tension. We know it's quite possible. We've seen it done. You can do it too. Wow, I should be a motivational speaker.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks Nikk, I am very obsessive and this is one of those things that I won't stop trying until I nail it. I can do it half azz but I will not incorporate it into my playing until I really nail it. I guess I am in for the long haul.

Are there others like Vinnie or Virgil etc. that use this same Technique? I know Steve Holmes does because I see it in his instructional video Steve just doesn?t talk about it.

Cheers

[bryan v]

I remember during the late 1990's Weckl talked about his old video. He said that he had neglected to discuss something about this two finger thing in regards to utilizing it in the normal playing position. I'll have to look it up in my clinic tapes...
BV

[shedder]

vinnie's the master at the trad grip finger control. i see him do it at the baked potato all the time. he usually uses it when he plays fast but very soft singles on the snare while fading out a tune (like on the ending of aliens ripped my face off). sometimes he does the finger control thing where his index and middle fingers alternate. that's pretty cool.

man, that guy has so much technique it's discouraging.

[FuseU1]

Yeah, & there were a couple of hardcore faculty [& students] at MI/PIT back in the late 80's to early '90's saying VC had "sloppy" or "bad" technique AW [img]eek.gif[/img] ...yeah, RIGHT...

I couldn't care less if VC played RH trad & LH palm UP-MATCHED on his RH kit..
.
...having clocked many countless hours listening to, & prob even more trying to understand Mr C's conceptual springboard & implement it on kit, i would NEVER make such a statement as that, i don't care if you are DCI International World Hand Technique Champion or some schatt like that.

Even Mangini w his superb technq blushes when you mention the sacred, ineffable name of [shhhh, quiet now, someone will HEAR you]: "Call-eye-YOOUUU-tahhhhh" - [utter/stammer at your own risk/peril] [img]wink.gif[/img]

AWA Weckl, Simon has also espoused the palm down-to-up practice method since the mid-to-late 80's.

If you watch Virg's LH, you'll see him applying several different aspects of this trad gripping method throughout "the gig" [as described well by pete c.]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 13, 2003 12:54 AM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>